Sister Eloise and Vae Victis

[alecfras]

I've got a question regarding her Assassination order and whether or not she can use Vae Victis on it to increase the damage bonus.  I already know that she can appear on the battlefield for 1 CMD point and sprint into combat and use her Assassination order for 1 Permanent.  Now, in this case, she has an effective '8' Combat dice to work with on this attack because of her movement of 5 allowing her to slide in without charging penalties.  If Vae Victis is allowed to be used, then from my perspective this is far more effective than simply spending 3 CMD to bring her onto the battlefield in the first place, right?

Little scenario to help me explain.  She spends 1 CMD to come onto the table, runs into combat to stab Bran Carnoth in the back of the neck with a one-sided attack at 1 Permanent CMD and 8 Combat dice (again, her movement 5 allowing her to run in without penalty).  The Officer spends another 2 CMD for Vae Victis now giving her a +2 to Combat thus resulting in 10 dice total (5 + 5 re-rolls).  This is the same exact amount of CMD points that the other side of her Apparition order uses in the same circumstance, but works far more effectively as the other method which would only result in 8 Combat dice.  Even if she had to run into combat, she's still better off with 9 using Vae Victis!

Now, my question is whether the more expensive side of this order only makes sense if her target is surrounded by such a radius that the only way to get into combat and perform an Assassination on the same turn she arrives onto the table is to spend the 3 CMD?  From the way I see it, this order only really makes good sense for 'stragglers' as they wouldn't have a wide enough radius for her to be unable to reach them in time.  Is this accurate?  It all seems very circumstancial to be able to ever realisically justify spending the 3 CMD ponts instead of 1.  Say, Bran Carnoth was surrounded in such a way that she would need to run over a foot to reach him and be able to perform an Assassination due to the fact she can only run 10 inches to begin with anyway.  I hope that I'm getting this right.

- Alec

[BeBert]

Hello,
What you said is right. In your example, it is more effective to use Vae Victis.
Nevertheless, there are a lot of cases where using 3 CMD to appear would be usefull.
First, you may not have Vae Victis (if your officer is dead or stun).
You may also want to perform an assassination on a "stealth" opponent (charge is forbidden but not assault).
There are also opponent which get +1CBT if you charge them.
If your opponent are in a 'difficult' field you may need one extra CMD to charge
and - last but not least - you may add 3 CMD appearance with Vae Victis 2 to have '11' combat.

[alecfras]

I can see now why it makes sense to use the 3 CMD, but Sister Eloise still has 5 inches for her movment which is certainly enough to 'assault' as opposed to 'charge' because the 1 CMD only restricts her from appearing within the range of 5 inches.  But this clears up my question all the same.  Thanks for the clarification! 

- Alec

[Gottkaiser]

Just a question out of curiosity: Are you planning to contact with a part of her miniature? Thiis won't work every time, as she doesn't reach out over her base that much. She certainly can't make contact with her base in an assault, as she has only a movement of 5 and if the distance between the bases is 5 inch, you are "within 5" " and have to pay 3 cmd.

[alecfras]

Well, if you're just at 5 inches, technically and mathmatically shouldn't she always be able to touch another base at exactly 5 which is the limit she can walk?  This is 'at' 5.  Not 'within' 5.  Even if she somehow couldn't, say becuase she was at 6 inches due to other guys being in the way or something like that (which is still highy unlikely), the very same amount of Vae Victis spent still benefits the situation moreso than simply spending the 3 command points to bring her onto the table in the first place.  The only truly feasable way I could see the 3 CMD being effective was if she could not run or charge (but still could melee, walk, etc.) but was placed at 6 inches away instead.  This would mean she would have to spend the 3 CMD if she wanted to see combat the instant she comes into play.  This is not the case as she is allowed to run, charge, etc. anyway as soon as she comes onto the table!  Now, I'm not complaining at all with the way things are because overall she's not 'that' strong, but still my point is that I feel that wasting the 2 extra CMD is pointless 9 times out of 10 in regards to her Apparition.  1 for Apparition + 2 Vae Victis, even with a charge action is still at least 1 better overall than 3 CMD to bring her onto the table within 5 inches.

- Alec

[Gottkaiser]

To be able to make basecontact with another unit, she would have to have a distance of exactly 5" to the base of the other unit. But this counts as being within 5", so you would have to pay 3cmd. I guess there are a number situations where this can be handy , e.g. if some shooty units hides in a terrain feature you can't reach normally, which happens rather often on our tables.

[alecfras]

Like I said though, even so, it's still better to just remain outside 5 inches for the same amount of command spent.  That aside, I still fully believe that exactly 5 doesn't count as within 5, but then again, this is where the 'slap on the cheek' rule comes in handy.  Over the weekend I had another game and another good reason to use the 3 command instead is Attack of Opportunity hands down.  I'd have to 'appear' or 'materialize' in contact with him to avoid the initial blow of one-sidedness, so if I were to walk in, I wouldn't be able to avoid the free hit.  There's where this 3 CMD portion of the rule starts to make sense to me.

- Alec

[BeBert]

Appearing at exactly 5'' costs 3 CMD.

If she is placed 5 fathoms or less from an
enemy unit, this order costs 3 CMD.

and the french text leaves no doubts.

[alecfras]

Thank you very much for the clarification!    Now it's a lot easier for me to understand why 3 CMD is beneficial in comparison.

- Alec