Bran Carnoth is ridiculously overpowered (or is he?)

[Falk]

Or maybe I just don't know what to do against him. My brother likes to play Bran, I play Sarrasins. I've already come to the conclusion that Bran cannot be killed. It is possible in theory but it would need that much effort that I couldnt possibly win the scenario. So how to keep him out of combat?

Something I did with the 1634 rules was to field a Lancer and have him block Bran with DEF 6. The Egares usually get domination early on (because I obviously have more squishy guys) which is a simple counter against the Lancier, but with Layla and Grand Stratege I could survive another crucial turn. This isnt possible anymore.

What happens now is that Bran basically kills everything I throw against him and his troops conquer the scenario goals (we usually play Conquête) in his back. On a 30" battlefield it is impossible to avoid contact with Bran alltogether, especially considering his 8" knockdown feat. And I have no idea what to do about it. My brother agrees with me so I think we will just use house rules: make him significantly weaker and make him cost ~60 points.

What is your experience with Bran? How to defeat him?

[Corto]

One of the answers is: don't play Saracen  As a general thing, Saracen have a lot of trouble against the Lost (the same way for example Westerners have trouble against Saracen and Lost have difficulties against Westerners).
But against Bran, the alchemist is your best friend, and is even better with the Lancer. The alchemist has 2 great weapons against Bran: the incendiary grenade which will do a lot of damage (through armor) and the grenade of rage which will prevent Bran from using his shout. The shout is active so if you get him under the grenade he will have to charge instead of shouting. Now if you have a Lancer under wall of blades to take this charge, all the better.
Here is the plan: first the incendiary grenade at the end of the turn, that will do 3 damage at the start of turn. Don't worry if you get only Bran under it, he is your #1 target. Next turn, start with Lancer to put him under wall of blades where Bran can charge only him, then grenade of rage and hide behind the lancer. Bran charges the Lancer, get 3 more damage from the wall of blades, plus some from the lancer (one of your very rare figures with a good damage table, plus charge reception and eager). At the start of the next turn, Bran gets 3 more incendiary damage, plus 3 from the poison, as you were right behind the (now defunct) lancer. Total 12 plus whatever the lancer has done, that should be quite enough.
Now remember, if you are lucky, life is plan B so your brother will not be caught twice by this combination. But on the other hand, that will force him to dance around those minis, which will give you an easy scenario win in most cases. There are other tactics, but most include careful positioning of your squishy guys to avoid losing dominance. Also, you may think of using Tarik instead of the lancer, to be able to focus all you have on Bran and win right away with the blood of kings order. But do this with caution as you know that it can heavily backfire.

[l enchanteur]

If you cant find a way to overcome him with the alchemist, or the panther (he has only got a def of 4 so with a few vae victis you can try to get anough hits to put him on the ground and stop him using an order),then hire some external guns, mercenaries are great!
the russan trapper will stop him moving to fast (bran doesn't like to be traped on the ground), if not 30 coins will do him good damages from the begining (spiritual damage )

Bran is very strong, good, effective... but he cost a lot, so if you kill him, you'll have killed most of the lost's warband, and eaven better don't try to kill him, just stop him doing enything while your other troops go around killing the few stuf he has on the side!
 

[Corto]

What l'enchanteur says is very true, but it's difficult to ignore Bran, so I would suggest instead to try and keep him a bit occupied with a few cheapo troops instead of trying to kill him, and focus on the scenario.
Oh, and trapper + panther does mean that he never gets back up if he makes the mistake of running (once he is on the ground, contact with panther, his def is now 2 each time he tries to get back up so he will often go back down from the panther).

[Falk]

Thanks for your tipps, guys! You gave me some new ideas how to deal with Bran. I think first I'll try the Alchemist/Lancier tactic and back them up with a Chasseur Berber to soften up Bran a little before he arrives.

The Panthére might also do well, however, if I get unlucky with the dice, he'll be dead the next round without having done much. But it's worth a try.

If nothing helps, I'll use the Trapper, I own him anyway (for my mercenary army that is still missing an officer...).

I found it extremely hard to ignore Bran alltogether. Either he just goes rampage across the battlefield or he just runs to my side of the table, conquering all carrés in his path with ease (in Conquete scenario). So I do need to stop him somehow.

[Breten]

I always find it funny when people complain about Sarrasins vs Lost as I haven't been that bothered by them.  My buddy plays Lost and we are at about 50/50 over probably 20 or so games.

All the tips here are great though.

[Corto]

Hey Breten, what do you play to be so good against the Lost? I have a lot of trouble because most of my guys can't do 2 rounds against their troopers, which combined with their high speed makes my life very difficult. But I must say that I like Bran better than Isha, who can not only destroy most my guys but also has enough troopers to focus on the scenario.

[Corto]

Sorry, I re-read myself this morning and found that my previous post can seem aggressive. Please excuse me Breten, I really did not mean to flame.
Also, regarding Bran (which you may have gathered I do not find overpowered) a good counter is the golem. If Bran uses his shout while the golem is in contact, he will pay dearly for it (-1 def and high attack + damage table) and may not even be able to use it (on 5 hits he is knocked down, and on 3 hits, or 4 choosing to inflict only 3 he is stunned). If, on the other hand, Bran uses the shout before being engaged, after the golem gets up Bran's backside belongs to it.

[Rich_B]

If using the starter boxes Nazir's In'Cha'Allah order is useful against Bran because it negates the combat penalties you suffer when Bran knocks you down. Time it well though or keep Nazir back or he will engage you to strip you of your DEF bonuses and then let off his shout...

After that its just a matter of getting the Pillars into him with Charisma and Djinn bonuses and charging in the odd sacrificial Sanctified Warrior to do the damage... If you can get enough extra CBT to increase the likelihood of a lot of hits it can be worth sending in the Hunting Kitteh as a knocked down or immobilised Bran is easily finished by the Pillars

The Lost are tough though...

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

The Terror 2 is hard to beat...

[Magno]

I've only played with Bran against the starter Westerner list. I loose every time. Bran does his amount of damage, but my opponent does a bit of it himself to Bran and then usually finishes him off with Zarinas explosion spell. Get Bran down to ~6 hit points and then outrun him for 3 rounds.

Not the best answer, but it's what I've seen.

[Reuben]

I'm not using 1635 yet, but I'm surprised no one thought of this - get a large quantity of Jezzails or Arquebusiers. If you had 4 (at 48 points) in 1635 you've got pretty good odds of doing 8 points of damage before a single Bran Attack gets launched. If you added Aiden st James for Westerners, you might just pull off the 16 you need to take him out. It's not a tactic I'm using yet (because without Armour Penetration shooting Bran is an excercise in futility) but I could  definitely see it working after that. Then, when they're useless after having shot, run them away to claim objectives.

[l enchanteur]

Yep, that would work!
but after they have killed bran, they will be kiled by his alies. And that's assuming that the other player doesn't play any mercenarie like Sha or 30 coins for who these troops are just the perfect way to win the dom.
And if he plays saurav, he will heal bran.
The best way to deal with him is to try o avoid him and keep him occupied. Killing him often takes too much effort. 

[Breten]

Hey Breten, what do you play to be so good against the Lost? I have a lot of trouble because most of my guys can't do 2 rounds against their troopers, which combined with their high speed makes my life very difficult. But I must say that I like Bran better than Isha, who can not only destroy most my guys but also has enough troopers to focus on the scenario.

No worries about "flaming"  I never took it that way, just been busy at work, and sick.

Anyhow, I tend to use the starter with a Lancer replacing the Panther and a Sanctified Warrior.  I usually pair up the pillars and Lancer up with a warrior.  My friend just uses the Lost starter until he gets other models painted.  I usually ignore the Fang, and Maggot Slinger, and focus on sending the Pillars after his Retarius.  If I can get to them first, I'm usually in a good position.  The Lancer I send after Bran, and hope the Pillars survive to give him a hand.  I usually keep Nazir nearby for his kick ass healing, but you need to be careful not to keep him portected.

I tend to focus on taking Bran and the eunuchs out early.  Though playing to the scenario can really make it more difficult.

[BlasterBonatti]

I know this thread's about Sarassins but I thought I'd throw in my way of dealing with Bran; Asaliah! Launch two "possession" lemures out and watch as the big cowardly Bran avoids them like the plague! Haha! Demons rock! (she can also heal your Great Damned of Anger as he beats down on Bran, love that chick!)