Les Chiens de Guerre

So, is Asmodee going to be making an english translation of this game available in north america any time soon, or are they going to follow in Rakham's footsteps and keep a major phobia about supporting english players? I run a small gaming store in a town just outside of Toronto, Canada, and I'm always looking for interesting games to show off and see if they sell. I think I'd have a real problem selling a game that's not available in english and is extremely hard to find in north america.

Actually, they have a big phobia of the North American consumer market: Asmodee sell mainly family friendly games and they know that in the US, if they get linked to a game like Hell Dorado, it will hurt them greatly. This is a game that is very critical of religion (as there is no one true one but all of them work), that touches on the subject of demon worship, that has some very provocative illustrations, ... any of these could completely destroy their image.
So they are very reluctant to print an official rulebook with their name on it. We have been doing a lot of translation and are pushing very hard to get a nice soft-cover like the others. We are even prepared to print it ourselves with our own money if they give us the rights. Same for the cards. We offered that as a solution so that their name would only appear in the thanks and not on the cover to distance the mainstream games from this very 'hot' product.
So far we have not had a response one way or another (they will probably have to fight a few interesting internal politics battles before they can answer, but they have 2 weapons of power: Dominance and Croc's nail-studded board). Our point is that if we don't print the rules and cards, we cannot gain critical mass to a point where there are enough people to have some good tournaments and campaigns.
Please help us lobby Asmodee!

The game is already available in English (albeit not in a printed version), and Geof said the English cards should be available the same way by the end of the month. I know that's a very dead horse to beat, but that's everything you need to play the game :)

Of course a neat printed version would be very neat, but remember that Asmodée went to GenCon Indy last year ad that no distributor had the balls to agree on distributing the game. Perhaps the recent release was a turn off, perhaps the Asmodée folks there didn't know much in the ways to conduct a transaction in America, but certainly the very mature and very religions-bashing themes did not help. Everything would have been a lot smoother if the game's background had been a lot more mainstream (or if the US were not so uptight about politically correctness and religions), but I'm not sure it would have appealed to as many people.

I know how you feel though. I live in the US myself, I love the game and the models, but I can't get anyone involved further than a "ooooh neat minis!". I should demo it more, but time isn't really on my side these days. Two things could make the game more interesting to North American customers soon(-ish): the upcoming cards available for download, and the €uro's slow descent. I for one am really looking forward the latter, I'm tired of paying a premium just because the US$ is so low. Once the models are cheaper, people might forgive the lack of printed material more easily.

In our group there are 3 players, and we've all agreed if there will be no official support this game is DEAD. I need to know that if IM investing time and money in a game its not going to "die" on me.

The difference between this game being unofficial and dead is vast.

The situation with Confrontation is an example of a game that died.  It was cut down by its owners and destroyed.  People have huge piles of figures but no new rules to play.

Hell Dorado is official and supported.  Sure, the stuff will be in French but there will be new minis coming out, new updates, revisions, etc.  It is in no way dead, even if the lack of English rules will put off players*.  There will always be players (like myself and others) who are willing to do fan-translations and the like. 

Essentially, you still get all the rules and stuff needed to play, but don`t have to pay for it.   ;D

(* I`m still not entirely sure why that puts people off.  If a games good then its good.  Ah well.)

helldorado isnt dead or dying. its a french game which people have taken the time to translate and play. they arnt obliged produce things in english if they dont intend to have us as a target market. the game is small right now because alot of people are put off by french rules and the effort it might take to print stuff out blah blah blah! but you cannot compare it to confrontation. that was suicide and rackham have nobody to blame for themselves there. they turned a great game and some of the best figures in the world into a toys r us bargain bin special. unsupported with no releases and no rules and the game is dead. helldorado is making rules and figures constantly, just not in english which would be convenient if they did but they dont so either play as you have been using translated rules and wait for a english release that more than likely will happen in the fufute or simply dont play at all.

frankly the game is great and the models superb, its worth the little effort it might take to play without english rules actually printed on cards or a hardback english rulebook but all that stuff is available and for the cost of printing it out. not as fancy but still functionable.

I don't see the printed book as being too much of a problem- the official English translation online along with fanlation cards makes this a very affordable game to get up and running to any gaming group with a minimum of internet savvy-

What the real issue is is getting the miniatures.  If we are looking at the Rackham model, I felt the online store was a real bonus to their credit- and the offering of points and discounts etc.. to buyers.
The US problem I can speak to is the lack of stocked distribution- Fantazation has Hell Dorado minis listed, but rarely seems to have them in stock in a timely manner.  Growing a game requires access for stores, as stores are the ones that are best set up to promote products- and if they can make a little money off of a game I am pushing in their store they are usually very happy to help me out.  Right now no one is upset I play Hell Dorado in their store, but I can tell you they would be much more excited if they could at least order for customers in a timely manner- not the fault of Asmodee-

That said, the setting, miniatures and game design are too wonderful to pass up, and if you like it you should not let language or availability get in the way.  Use proxy models while your real ones ship from France and keep the game going!
Soon terraformation will be out in English and the real genius of the game will shine to those of us in North America-
Patience will be rewarded and dreams will be realized!

I sort of agree with the dying comment: if you don't have good professional support, you only have a small fringe of players. That means you cannot reach critical mass where you have some neat campaigns and highly disputed competitions. Without those, interest can only dwindle and players will turn to other games, which may not be quite as great, but have good support, following and activity.

A game can never be better than the people playing it. However great I think this game is, if the players around me play another game, I will follow. So I really want to get some good native support so that gamers can flock to Hell Dorado and we can organize some huge competitions with lots of prizes.

Then we can have a world cup here in Australia, you guys will come during your winter to play on the beach, drinking red backs and pure blondes, putting a few shrimps on the barbie, ... ahhh, the life!

Saying the game is dead/dying/will never take off is missing the point; the Engish-speaking world isn't the target amrket for this game. It's apparently doing well enough in France to merit a reprint of the rulebook, so it's looks plenty alive to me. It's just that the UK and US markets are unaccustomed to having to translate a game into their own language. In Europe, translations are often done by the national distributors, not the original producer (I think the German version of Confrontation 2nd edition was done like this). I know I'm being unfair, since they likely don't have the resources, but I don't see Simple Miniature Games, or whoever's importing it into the US, putting out an English translation.

Language is not an excuse when it come to fun ...   ;D.  you guys can always learn a bit of french  you know . imagine you are in a party  and some of the girls are french speakers ...   :P

Andrew, my concern is not that it works well in France, I live 15000 km away so good on them if they have people to play with and great support. I care about people *here* playing and having fun. And that's where it is in a very bad shape.
Lapiaz, I am French, I actually translated part of the book (scenarios and terraformation). Those translations are back with Geof after a couple of rounds of proof-reading, he'll have a last look at them and probably put them online very shortly.

I may seem very critical, but I assure you I am a fan and I'm actually *doing* something about it, with translations right now and maybe more in the future. I know that Asmodee is doing everything they can to reach our market in the right conditions, I'm just sometimes frustrated when it's a bit slow, that's all.

Corto, I see your point. My point was that Asmodee might simply not care about Helldorado in the English-speaking world (I realise Geof does, but that's different).

Actually, they do.
I can't really tell you more as nothing is official, but I can tell you that things are getting seriously discussed at all levels of the organization.
Watch this space.

 I help a bit on the proofreading of the english translation as well  , no as much as I would like . my group of players speak no french  at  all  but that don't stop them  picking up the game  and  bash up a quick translation  on the early days ...  we demoed  the game at Salute this year  and got a few (read lots)  interested  to pick up the game . Manchester  have another  group  playing  and helping with the translation ....

First off apologies, my above post was made when I was both exhausted and a bit tiddly. I did not mean to come across as so blunt. My point remains however, I am not prepared to play/invest time and money in a game where Im having to rely on "fan" translations, and then find Ive been playing it wrong, as has already happened in every game so fa. I like the game a lot, I think the minis are great and a delight to paint. But if its just going to be a "niche" game then Ill go elsewhere.
I also agree that there is no obligation at all to make it in English, its just a shame that Ive found it. Ignorance IS bliss.

Junkeinstein, you should listen Corto when he said :
I share his source and trust me, I am more than optimistic for the future of Hell Dorado in our countries

Fair enough. My lst post was a little harsh, or at least, didn't say what I wanted it to. I'm not going to bother "watching this space", since I've been watching it since the beginning of the year, and nothing's filled it yet, but I'll buy the wave 6 minis when they eventually come out, and I'll gladly buy a rulebook if I see one in my LGS.

Junkenstein's commentas about the fan translations is unfair - the rulebook has an official translation, and the cards themselves get translated pretty well from what I can see; the only translation issues I've seen are from people insisting on using out-of-date unofficial rulebooks, despite the official one being available.  As anyone familiar with Provateer Press' infamous "list" will know, simply playing a game written in your native toingue is no guarantee of rules set in stone. :)

I'm only annoyed by the slipping deadlines; if no-one had said, back in February, that the official translations of the cards would be avbailable in a couple of months, it wouldn't bother me so much. :) I'd rather have translations of the setting information than the stats, anyway.

Don't blame Asmodee for that. I accept the responsabilities for this delay as I kept the proofreading documents far too long before I sent it back to Geof...

Now regarding the English recruitment cards they should be available middle of next week... if they are not then you'll have blame Geof this time, not me  ;D

*polishes his axe in preperation*

Come on Budy, we are talking about a French game.

Guillotine is definitively more appropriated  ;D

I don`t know about that.  Not quite personal enough.  We *want* these cards, you know.   ;D

Oooh-

Wave 7 cards too??
My Mercenary band will be ever so happy if this is true!  November isn't too far away....

And it isn't so much that I need the cards as those who are just learning or younger, etc.. who like to see it in English instead of my- by the way Farouche is Fierce, etc...

Cards of the Wave 7 had been translated, checked and published.

Don't see any reason why they shouldn't be revealed at the same time than the French.

I'd be interested in knowing about what those "translation issues" are :)

I don`t know all of them, but I believe one was "Premier Choc" being translated as "First Strike" in the unofficial rules while its "Eager" in the official one.  Had the unfortunate side effect of people thinking it meant you struck first rather than getting your bonus.

I am making some promises to my group on this- told them not to waste color ink printing the unofficial ones- so as it gets closer to "mid-week" in France the anticipation is building!

I talked to Geof yesterday. He confirmed the cards will be released this week (most certainly on thursday)  :D

WOOOOOTTT!! Finally! I have put off playing so far but this will definitely encourage a session on the weekend. 

I gotta say, I'll believe it when I see it.  Considering we were supposedly at most a month away from having it back in April.  Either way I'm already playing the game at this point.  I just want the damn terraformation rules and stuff that we as English players, don't officially have.

I tried tracking Geoff down at GenCon to introduce myslef, but could never find a time when he was around, but I was pretty busy too, so that's a small window of time.

Is the english translation of the rules available to download somewhere? Is there a web site where all the english translations are being collected?

The rules: http://www.helldorado.fr/ressources/telechargements/telechargement_id19/fichier.pdf

The orders/auras/spells: http://arch01.forum.helldorado.fr/index.php?topic=1965.0

And you'll find fan made cards with stats and those orders/auras/spells on this forum, usually in threads named "... in full". However the official cards will apparently be available for download tomorrow, so those last two resources will become pretty much useless.

Well today's the day!! Maybe its a little early to be looking for updates, ill give it till lunchtime  :P

Aye, especially as they`re French they start a bit later in the day for us.

my parents have a house in france and whenever im there it seems all the shops open for about 45 minutes a day. open at 11am then a dinner break that lasts until closing time. god help you if you run out of anything on the weekend, NOTHING is open. you literally have to find a city and even then its a push to find an open shop.

go to america and its the total opposite, your pushed to find something open less than 24 hours a day.

the helldorado crew are proberly just waking up about now  ::)  ;D

Is there a way you could accept this as an excuse for the new delay to come  :-[

Darth-Swen, digging a big hole

Very funny, really.

Absolutly ridiculous and insane but funny.

Oh, bugger.   :(

No worries cards will be availalble really soon.

As it will be explained it is a first issue which includes mistakes (I already noticed some)...but understanding the Hardcore Gamers won't be pleased to wait anylonger Asmodee will relased this unchecked version of the cards.

At the meantime I will create a subject into this forum to let you write down your comments and so help us to achieve "perfection"  ::)

The "checked and corrected" documents will be published next week.

Sincerely yours

i know i had a lynching rope here somewhere but the gonad scissors will just have to do instead.

sigh* anyone else see this coming? oh well whats another week thanks for letting us know anyway

Hold on mate... I promise you the cards this week

It is just the "first" issue which presents mistakes we are currently recording to be modified.

I guess it depends what these mistakes are really.

If its a case of the grammar being a little off on a couple of cards its not a big problem.  If every single card is comprised of the word FISH then it might be.   ;D

I`m probably going to need to edit/resize/format them in some way before getting some printed so I`ll have a look at editing anything beforehand.

Basicaly most of the mistakes I already spoted are based on the presentation (space at the wrong position, text fonts...)
Nothing important enough to stop you to use these cards for a game...

For your information documents are in the loop to be published...

EDIT: I just talked to CCCP. He advised me everything will be online tomorrow mid day.

Be aware Asmodee is currently doing his best to support the english players and would like to apologise for this new delay.

Feel free to contact me if you have any remark or request.

 ;D

Thankfully I decided not to hold my breath.  :) 

As it is, I'm sure most of us won't really be happy until we hold a book in our hands in English.  Should have paid more attention in French class when I was in high school. 

Get the pdf to a professional printer and you can get one made up for less than a tenner.   ;D

The PDF is not the full rulebook is it?   ;)

If I had the fluff, profiles, and terraformation I'd do it.  And I don't need a printshop, I'm a draftsman and can print it myself.  Which I've done with the PDF already, I just want the rest of it.

*pokes dead horse*

*dead horse is dead*

*Dogmeat wanders off*

To be fair I wasn't only expecting the release of the cards, I was also waiting for the presentation of the painted Charon...

Unfortunately it seams  there are no news today  :'(

there still in bed for a pre weekend rest  :D

The cards are now available on the official website
http://helldorado.fr/telechargements/index.php

lovely jubbly, wont have a chance to look at them yet though.

I`ve ordered some test Merc cards to be printed.  Hopefully, if those go ok, I`ll get a full set printed off. 

good stuff mark  :D

does anyone know how or what is the best editor for these cards, as there are a few mistakes on them, like words with letters in the wrong place etc,

there is a thread on the rules section where i invite to  post your remarks. After few days Asmodee will correct the cards

Thanks

 :D I have heard that the rulebook is coming in early 2009 from Asmodee (see post under rules) This should be 99% definiite. As I get more info I'll add more here.

Cheers
Graham @ SMG
 

that is good news, cant wait