[Official] 1635 rules and cards

[Bork]

mercs got a mixed result. not at all happy with the russian trapper whos single redeaming feature has been nerfed a bit. just baught him too  its still useful but not nearly as good and costs more for the order too. 30 coins got a whole lot better which may tempt me to use him. sha ren zhe now gets two attack sequences with scavenger order which may be a good or bad thing. gotz got easier to hit  alazais is now much better which is great cos i like using her. giles gets cheaper by 9AP and has 8 fathon charisma range which cant be bad either.

overall im happy with everything from the races im playing. cant wait for the cards so i can maybe get a game or two in.

[Lemminkäinen]

mercs got a mixed result. not at all happy with the russian trapper whos single redeaming feature has been nerfed a bit.  just baught him too  its still useful but not nearly as good and costs more for the order too.

I just bought him, too, but I think that the nerfing was a really, really good thing. Especially adding a range for the effect. I mean, effectively taking the enemy's most powerful miniature out of the game for two rounds because they ran/charged is an extremely powerful ability. Or you can even kill the bugger because of the -2DEF thing. A Deserter is quite horrid against a DEF 2 opponent I used Trapper today (though I didn't get a chance to use the order as I messed up my command point usage a bit and there was very little running/charging going on because of the scenario.

gotz got easier to hit 

He indeed was ridiculously durable. 14 LP with PR 3 and DEF 4 made him one of the most durable minis in the game.

alazais is now much better which is great cos i like using her.

This was also extremely needed. She got a huge boost and really needed it.

overall im happy with everything from the races im playing. cant wait for the cards so i can maybe get a game or two in.

Aye, these were really nice changes. Can't say that I've yet noticed anything that I disagree with Great stuff!

[mathieu]

Saracen's Jafar the Efreet's order of getting free charges also changed so that it can only be triggered when (friendly?) Saracen models die.

Good catch, another one I let slip . It's fixed now.

Can someone explain the addition to Sha Ren Zhe's order - does it mean that he will fight twice after the teleport?

He teleports, immediately triggers a melee combat from the order, and then he gets to move (if needed/wanted) and fight a 'regular' melee combat. Well played he shouldn't have a problem getting rid of 2 troopers this way. Moreover, if you have the Domination you activate him last, kill two troopers, likely get the Domination back at the next turn, activate him first and kill two other troopers in the same fashion (as developed by quite a few people in this thread). Then he'll probably get a solid retaliation through his teeth, but unless you played him poorly (or were very unlucky), his death would be worth more points than he costs.

[/quote]Also, does Charon's order's Stunned state function differently from the usual Stunned state which lasts for X activations as opposed to X turns (X being one in this case)?
[/quote]It is a particular case indeed and only lasts until the end of the current turn.

[Lemminkäinen]

One more thing. The new Lemure rules are called Remanent and Evanescent in the rules pdf, but Layla gets Dissipated to one spell and Alazais gets Dissipated to all her spells. So should Dissipated be instead Remanent? Also, how does Remanent actually work in the game? Can the lemure lauch the spell again and again? Or am I just confused (entirely possible)?

Edit: Checking the French documents, it seems that only Layla should have Remanent in any of her spells and those are the first and the third spells (the ones marked as Evanescent in the English pdf). And it also answers my question about how Remanent works.

He teleports, immediately triggers a melee combat from the order, and then he gets to move (if needed/wanted) and fight a 'regular' melee combat. Well played he shouldn't have a problem getting rid of 2 troopers this way. Moreover, if you have the Domination you activate him last, kill two troopers, likely get the Domination back at the next turn, activate him first and kill two other troopers in the same fashion (as developed by quite a few people in this thread). Then he'll probably get a solid retaliation through his teeth, but unless you played him poorly (or were very unlucky), his death would be worth more points than he costs.

Ah, very cool, thank you!

[mathieu]

One more thing. The new Lemure rules are called Remanent and Evanescent in the rules pdf, but Layla gets Dissipated to one spell and Alazais gets Dissipated to all her spells. So should Dissipated be instead Remanent? Also, how does Remanent actually work in the game? Can the lemure lauch the spell again and again? Or am I just confused (entirely possible)?

What a doofus I am...

Alright so Remanent (same word as in french) is for when the lemure doesn't disappear when the spell takes effect, Evanescent ("dissipé" in french) is for when it does. I fixed the entries for the Saracen, Westerner, and Merc infernalists (for some reason the Demon were fine). Thanks for catching that one, that was a very bad and confusing mistake indeed.

As for the way it works all the Remanent spells are of the "as long as the Lemure is in play" type. So there's is no 'launching' the spell per se, it more as if the lemure were emitting its own little aura as soon as it is summoned and until it's killed.

[Darth-Swen]

On  the translation I provided to Geof I used "vanished" and "residual"

Are remanent &  evanescent better ? If yes will update my document and will send it back to Asmodee

[mathieu]

Residual and remanent are pretty much the same. Remanent belongs more to the technical vocabulary, I chose it because I think it's a little bit easier (as in "less confusing") to use the same word as in French when they happen to be exact translations of one another.

I used evanescent because I like the sound of it and it reminded me of a Physics class with evanescent waves and remanent fields, so both terms are somewhat linked in my memory . I don't think there really is a "better" translation, it's possibly is only a matter of taste. However I think any translation from a non-native English speaker should be heavily re-handled by at least one native English speaker anyway. No matter how hard we try it'll never sound as good as it could

[Darth-Swen]

Lets go for remanent then...

And for residual I will wait the opinion from a english native 

[AndrewGPaul]

To be honest, I'm not sure Remanent is a good choice - while the word appears to mean "lingering", I can only find references to it online regarding magnetism. Same goes for Evanescent - apart from the band, it's usually only referred to in electromagnetics.

If you want a less-"common" feel to the game, fair enough, but my opinion would be, save the more complex vocabulary for names and background text, not rules definitions.

[Darth-Swen]

To be honest, I'm not sure Remanent is a good choice - while the word appears to mean "lingering", I can only find references to it online regarding magnetism. Same goes for Evanescent - apart from the band, it's usually only referred to in electromagnetics.

If you want a less-"common" feel to the game, fair enough, but my opinion would be, save the more complex vocabulary for names and background text, not rules definitions.

So what would be the "best" for you ?

[mathieu]

To be honest, I'm not sure Remanent is a good choice - while the word appears to mean "lingering", I can only find references to it online regarding magnetism. Same goes for Evanescent - apart from the band, it's usually only referred to in electromagnetics.

Like I said, I know remanent belongs more to the technical world, but so does it in French and that is the word they picked for the rule. And if evanescent has a similar technical feel, it is (or was) a poetic term first and foremost. Just for the record

Now I for one do not want a particularly uncommon feel for the game, I'd just like whatever pops up in French to be available to non-French speakers as fast as possible (hence the rather crude translations at time, the occasional mistakes, and so on). But I honestly think that your opinion (or generally speaking the opinion of native English speakers) matters much more than mine (or any French translator) ever will as far as translating to English is concerned, so please do feel free to suggest terms you think are more appropriate. I'll be happy to fix these temporary files so they're easier to understand until the official cards are available.

[AndrewGPaul]

And if evanescent has a similar technical feel, it is (or was) a poetic term first and foremost. Just for the record

Fair enough; my education was in science, not literature.

As for alternate terms, hah, it's easier to criticise than to help. Hmmm ...

possibly expendable and lingering? Or has lingering already been used? I'd actually lean towards something like destroy and remain in play.

Needs more work, I think.

[mathieu]

Or has lingering already been used?

For the auras, indeed.

[Nutzoide]

Are you looking to describe the lemures or the spells themselves?

If it is the spells only, I would be tempted to use "Perpetual" or "Constant" for the spells that are in effect as long as the lemure is in play. It assumes that the player knows the spell goes away when the lemure is killed, but that it obvious from the rules we already have. Residual isn't inaccurate, but it does leave me with the impression of something continuing on after a more important event. As an OTT example: The residual effect of an atomic bomb would be the fallout and lingering radiation. Or you might harbor a residual grudge after fight. That seems too weak to describe what is supposed to be the main result of a spell casting.

I'd also maybe use "Instant", or better yet: "Triggered", for spells that only when the lemure destroys itself to release the spell, since some one shot spells leave lingering effects/terrain and the like.

However, if you are describing the lemure and the spell as a single combined entity, then using something more interesting like "Supporting" or "Supportive", and "Suicidal" or "Destructive" might be fun, as long as they are explained properly in the rules! That might still be too confusing though, since any spell can be put in any lemure.

[mathieu]

One thing to keep in mind is that as the game evolves new abilities/keywords are likely to be introduced. So it's important to make sure that terms chosen today are not too likely to interfere with future translations. For example I don't think it's unrealistic to imagine a model that would have some "suicidaire" special ability (French for suicidal), and it'll be trickier to find a translation if "suicidal" is already used today. I believe Rackham ran into similar problems when they decided to translate the french "brute épaisse" into "brutal", and with C3 introduced the french "brutal" in the game (which became ruthless).

All of this to say that even if it doesn't matter much as far as the current rule is concerned, it's just easier in the long term if the English terms don't depart too much from the meaning of the original word. In my opinion that is