Tactics/Standard Builds

[themailedfist]

Just played my second game and am enjoying it so far.  I just haven't figured out how the Westerners are going to conquer Hell yet - the Demons are putting up too much of a defense of their home!


As I am still learning, I'd like to learn what other players are using/doing with their troops.    And just so fair's fair, I'll share the list I tried yesterday:

200 points of Westerners

Baptiste Valombre
Master Servant     

Aidan Saint James    

Anna Bogna Pavlova    

Fencer

Arquebusier x2

Doppelsoldner x2
    

I faced this horde of Demons (as best as I can recall, at least)

Samael

Infernal Ambassador    

Succubus     

Damned of Sloth x2

Damned of Wrath x2


Where it all went wrong:

Well, I attempted to use my Arquebusiers and Aiden St. James to soften them up, but I only managed two rounds of firing (and that only from Aiden's special ability) before they were all over me. 

The Infernal Ambassador cancelled my every attempt to use Vae Victis or Vae Soli.   He is a rotten tour guide.

In the end, it was my Fencer facing the two Damned of Sloth and the Infernal Ambassador, all of who had been fully healed by my killing of Sameal.  Which I had seen THAT coming, but at this point I barely know my own rules, let alone the other armies special abilities.

In any case, I'm having fun, but would like to hear what other folks are doing to force the demons back.

--Robert

[g]

You should make space for a few grenadiers. Point for point i think they are the best. Use the pistol chap as he is three points cheaper.

[BlasterBonatti]

The trick I've found with westerners (after my whole one game with them), is to use their synergy with each other. Unfortunately this means the Doppledudes and valombre don't really have much going for them at the moment (despite their inherent awsomeness). The Missionary is amazing, especially being able to heal other papistes, beats Anna any day. I've found shooting in HD to be not fantastic, Aiden helps a lot but is still not great (why doesn't he have trained marksman?!). The game I used, as I recall was:

Vargas
2 x Arquebusiers
2 x Dopples
Missionary
Gotz
Aidan
Sister Eloise

It worked quite well (Gotz is AWSOME!, plus he benefits from the missionary). Didn't stop Tarique running all over me though.  Eloise is really, really handy but the men of the match were the missionary and aidan (who killed at least 3 models!) Vargas isn't great, but he's not bad and only costs 40pts.

[themailedfist]

I discovered that healing was never really a factor in the games I played - the Demons tended to kill anyone they were in combat with, even if I killed the Demon at the same time. 

But I tend to agree about Baptiste Valombe versus Vargas - he's neat, but he's just not worth the points at the moment.

--Robert

[BlasterBonatti]

Healing's amazing! Most of the time it'll only keep whoever it is alive another round but that can make all the difference. Especially for demons with their 0 protection. Nothing like seeing someones face as you heal your Damned of Sloth back up another 8 wounds, or keeping your Great Damned of Anger around another round to mince things. I can see how the "healer" ability is a bit rubbish really but if you've got anything with healing auras or orders, take them!

[Metropolis]

Anna's healing ability is not bad actually - I tend to have her stand next to the fencer anyway to use her bodyguard ability to give him PR 1 (well it's better than nothing) and she can heal him for 3 points as well - shame it's an exhausting power.

I try to take Anna if possible - I like the model and in two of the games I've played she has been the last model on the table. Her reach weapon stops whoever she is bodyguarding being charged a lot of the time as they have to move into B2B with her or stop

Use "God guide my hand" on the fencer turn one - unless you have a very low CMD build it will be worth it. Save his pistol for defensive shot if possible - but don't bother reloading, he should be dealng out the melee damage.

I don't rate Arquebusiers very much. i managed to get three shots from one once (Aiden + a manual reload) and it still didn't kill anything. Toying with the idea of playing with six though - that should make Aiden worth it.

Dopple soldners are excellent well worth the points

Grenadiers are absolutely the best. Treat the blunderbuss as a one shot weapon - there is no way a grenadier should be sitting around for 3 turns. To be honest, I'd take a dopplesoldner over the blunderbuss 7/10 times. The 15 point pistol one however is well worth it. I found myself with 30 pts to spend on troops so often that I went out and bought a second box, just so I could field two of them!

Sara is not as reliable as grenadiers, I wouldn't bother. If you have the points and are desperate for an infernalist - take the Black Widow - if your opponent is burning a lot of CMD, burn some for him (the Inquisitor makes a great target if you are playing against some upstart Westerner wannabe) or use her to eliminate pesky auras. Use the chandelle lemure though for it's speed.

On the subject of Mercs - Gotz is very good: he benefits from two of the missionary's auras but not the healing one (not a papist) but his iron fist is really good to soften up an opponent before hitting her with his sword.

Missionary - take it if you can. Fanatics are great (old Griffin player me...)

Sister Eloise & Echevarra I haven't played with but you've got to be thinking about giving them a shot.

Leaders: I tend to play with Valombre cos hes cool but you have to sacrifice CMD and 20 pts over Vargas so it's a difficult choice to make. i haven't considered Georg really (although he was the first HD miniature I painted) as I don't fancy spending 80 pts in a 200 pt game - maybe at 400... There is always the cheeky Quixote option - in many ways he's better than Vargas, has more CMD and costs the same. you miss out on the missionary and Echevarra if you tske him so he is not as attractive as he used to be but people swear by him. If you are not playing with the holies then why not swap him in for a few games. Vargas is still a contender, especially when the melee breaks out and your horde of Dopple soldners areeager to get onto the next kill...

Ron @ Metropolis

[Corto]

I disagree on a few points here:
* Anna's healing, while quite good, is a waste when should could be putting people on the ground hitting them with that big mace of hers. A whole round without moving for 3 measly points is not optimal, unless you have another goals in mind (like keep this objective covered while you heal a fencer). Otherwise, just keep in contact with your protected unit, and get into their attacker with support, knock them down so that they can be finished easily and take some of their damage to yourself as you have loads of life. Remember, you can heal yourself too.
* Remember that the arquebusiers' strength is that their shots (like all shooting) are without riposte, so try to get it on big hitters like a succubus (def 6 order is only HtH) or a lancer and that will make them worth their points (if you have Aidan, of course, don't play them without him). Of course, many argue that the grenadiers are points better spent, as you don't have to take Aidan then. I tend to agree.
* I consider Sara to be superior to the black widow, with higher defense, enough movement to flee out of reach of MVT 4 and an array of spells that make the opponent a lot more nervous, all that for less points. The terrain spell she comes with is extremely useful for denying your opponent shots and movement. The black widow's spells are mode difficult to use and, while her drain life is great, if you are close enough to use it, then she is usually dead next turn.

[Metropolis]

Fair comment.

I tend to use Anna for her hitting potential too, but there are times when the healing is useful. I wouldn't take her just as a healer, but it is another option if she is not doing anything else. You are right though - as I said with the Fencer and the Blunderbuss grenadier - life is too short to have them standing around reloading when they can be in there mixing it with sword and bombs or mace in Anna's case. I would always consider taking her, for her durability and support options as much as for her hitting.

Sara just doesn't seem to cut it for me - yes the circle of fire is good - but I can think of better things to spend the points on (like more grenadiers...) Maybe I'll succomb to her feminine wiles eventually - I would say that in the few games I played with her she managed to stay around for a while and her magic powders, while not killing opponents outright, were better than nothing.

Regarding the Infernal Ambassador: yes it is annoying constantly getting your Vae's cancelled. What I did was stop using them while he was around as it's not worth it unless you are trying to burn the Demon's temporary CMD - not an easy task at the best of times. You start to think to yourself "What can I spend those CMD points on if not the Vae's" and you start to scrutinise the backs of the cards and discover some of the more subtle Orders that you might not have had the CMD to spend on when facing lists with no IA. Basically it forces you to think about your models' abilities a bit more and experiment with some of the effects that you might have overlooked. Once you've killed him, of course, then you can start using the Vae's again!

Cheers
Ron @ Metropolis

[Corto]

Very true.
Life's too short, specially if you are a grenadier!

[BlasterBonatti]

I've never used Alazais, bought the box because I love the model (and Gotz and Prizrak are great, although I only found that out after buying them) but she seems a wee bit too expensive to justify. Her spells are excellent but not necessarily always useful and drain life is great but I wouldn't be too eager to get her close enough to use it. I play westerners and demons, there's always something much more tempting to use your precious 30pts on.