Lancer the broken?

[PolishSausage]

So lancer's card states that I can do the scorpion sting that for 1 cmd he get +2 cbt until END OF TURN and it can be used 2x PER ACTIVATION....

What happens if I use layla bint and make lancer activate 2nd time..... do I get to use 2x more sting of scorion to
a total of +8 ?

[mathieu]

So lancer's card states that I can do the scorpion sting that for 1 cmd he get +2 cbt until END OF TURN and it can be used 2x PER ACTIVATION....

The wording on both Orders suggests that this should be possible indeed. Unless I'm missing something, that is.

[AndrewGPaul]

yes, if you're clever you can get his CBT over 10. What of it? Every faction can do that.

(for what it's worth, you can get it to 12 using only his own Orders and Vae Victis).

[PolishSausage]

lancer himself is cbt 5 +1 eager 2x(+2scorpion) 2x(+2scorpion) +1charisma(layla) +2 arch enemy +1 chams all majid +2 vae

that is 20 + any support bonus he can get ...
   or  is my math wrong?

[Corto]

Your math is right, but you are forgetting +1 for the charge reception (or whatever the translation is that he gets +1cbt on top of eager if he is charged).
On the other hand, the cost in command of what you describe is 4 (scorpion stings) + 3 (proof of devotion) + 2 (vae victis) = 9 which is a bit prohibitive, knowing that you have to used the most important abilities of the lancer: something to boost his defense. Here you have spend an awful lot of command to get your lancer killed in one turn.
Instead you should spend just 2 stings, no VV, but the wall of blades. Then you have not only cbt 9+ but also def 6, which is more important.
Broken? Not really more than some other combos, but very good indeed with Layla, as long as you have enough command to spend (did I hear someone mention the demons' mourner?)

[AndrewGPaul]

lancer himself is cbt 5 +1 eager 2x(+2scorpion) 2x(+2scorpion) +1charisma(layla) +2 arch enemy +1 chams all majid +2 vae

that is 20 + any support bonus he can get ...
   or  is my math wrong?

Yes; what you've quoted there adds up to 16:

CBT                 5
Eager             +1
Scorpion sting   +2
Scorpion sting   +2
Charisma         +1
Arch enemy     +2
Inspiration aura +1
Vae Victis         +2

You're apparently using Scorpion Sting 4 times, to get +8 CBT.  Corto, Scorpion Sting is 1 CMD; using it twice uses two, for a total of 4 temporary CMD, and the example above doesn't involve Proof of Devotion, rather it uses one of Layla's spells, which don't use up CMD. This example uses 6 points of temporary CMD in total, which is a hell of a lot, but could be worth it to finish off an Officer. If you can find 2 extra CMD from somewhere, you can use the Wall of Blades as well, for a theoretical maximum of 21 points of damage if the enemy attacks the Spearman (11 from getting 5 hits, plus 7 from the CBT over 10, plus 3 from Opportunity Strike) although in this instance I'd probably use it instead of the 2-point Vae Soli.

[Corto]

You're apparently using Scorpion Sting 4 times, to get +8 CBT.  Corto, Scorpion Sting is 1 CMD; using it twice uses two, for a total of 4 temporary CMD, and the example above doesn't involve Proof of Devotion, rather it uses one of Layla's spells, which don't use up CMD.

Sorry but it *does* involve the proof, as the whole point of the discussion (if you read the previous posts) was that you can put in 2 scorpion stings per *activation*, which results in 4 in a turn with that amazing order becasue you activate twice. And that gives you the correct maths of +8 combat and 7 command used.

The idea of the whole thread is that the lancer is broken because in this (very special) case, he can get over 20 combat for a very probable output of 20+ damage against a reasonable defense. but I was pointing out that it would be quite impossible to have enough command to do that. I think the arch enemy and VV are quite unnecessary and best used somewhere else, including as you say the wall o blades.

Indeed, it is great to be able to get the wall (which is active) and still be able to charge someone in the second activation, with def 6.

[AndrewGPaul]

Ah, missed that, sorry. Not up on Layla' spells; she's pretty far down the painting queue, so I've not used her.

[Rich_B]

The problem I've found is that you do all those buffs and then your opponent just avoids him  Doh!

[Bork]

yeah i tried that but the last time i played saracens i went up against 3 of them....let me tell you how fun that was