Tactics: Westerners

[Achilles]

So having played a couple of games against Sarasssins I've learned a few things about my army...

OFFICERS:

This is going to degenerate into Vargas vs. Baptiste as I don't have Georg yet and his ticket seems pricey for 200pts.

I will likely play a game with him at some point as all his stats are available in the rulebook and he's a pretty decent heavy hitter (though without the awesome Synergy of Tarik).

Vargas, great, great, great, great (and a few more) grandfather of Dick Van Dyke.

PROS: Decent Cbt stats. Decent CMD so he can include a fair number of trooper models with the points you save. He's fairly robust with an armour of 2 and 12 Life. Ardure and Audacity can be devastating should you be able to surround a vital enemy model and just pound the crap out of it with massive gang-up bonuses. That being said, plan on including 4+ Dopples and probably the Lady Chef if you want to get best use out of it. He's priced on the low end for officers in general at 40pts.

CONS: No Ranged attack. Apart from Vae Victus and Vae Soli his only real abilities that benefit troops are a once per game Order that can be shut down by things like Tariks eagle (or any other abiity that stops your models from being able to receive orders) and costs a WHOPPING 3 Permanent CMD.

Baptiste, the sexy professor.

PROS: Decent CBT stats. Above average Armour and decent Life. Immune to numberous special states. Aids in key scenery deployement. Moves through rubble. Harder to hit in combat because of Man at Arms. Has an innate Aura that adds to the Cbt stats of all models within 4" and has no cost (and is always active). Decent Ranged attack with various CMD based special effects. Has a built-in super-speedy and survivable sidekick to help you neutralize enemy Cbt stats.

CONS: Costs you faith with his Aura which hurts things like the Missionary's ability to heal friendly troops. Mid-ranged price in points (though Valet is included). Biggest issue is LOW COMMAND. Baptiste relies on his Independants to generate the CMD to increase the amount of troops he can field. It will of course also mean that you will be limited to the use of Vae Victus and Vae Soli (not so much an issue).

So who's the winner? Hard to say. Vargas is simple to use and simple to build into a list. Baptiste is harder to use and requires more planning, but on the table he's more versatile and his benefits for his troops don't need to be set up the way Vargas' are (A and A).

Personally I'd take Vargas. I like the way he plays and I prefer his approach of boosting the troops around him.

INDEPENDANTS:

I'll say it right away; the fencer is the KING. Even with a low CMD score from taking Baptiste as my Officer I never hesitated to use God Guide my Hand right at the beginning of the game. While he's a bit flimsy if he does get hit, most times he's charged and then promptly dices whoever had the temerity. I'll be looking for a nice model to paint up as a second one of these... the Warhammer Quest noble seems like an excellent candidate... but so are my Rackham Alahan Reavers.

Aidan is a good replacement for an Arquebuser. Because I wouldn't take them (ranged combat is... less than good) with the belief they'd do any damage of note you would think he would be unattractive. That being said, it is sometimes useful to be able to do 1-3 points of damage at range. Taking down someone like Tarik's eagle for instance, before it becomes a real nuissance. He can also bring a CMD to the table and has fairly roundabout stats. He's no fencer, but I think Aidan is still a decent investment.

TROOPERS:

 Dopplesoldiers and Grenadiers (preferably the pistol) are your friend!

Point for point these troops get the job done! Don't be afraid to target a point with grenades that possibly kills a badly wounded model of your own if it takes out the enemy!

Dopples make up for being slow by having 2" reach (read warmachine) and a very decent armour of 4. They benefit a great deal from being near Baptiste for the +1 Cbt... and you can save them from being hit back by running Mister Valet into the enemies rear ranks where his -1 Cbt will only effect their targets and save from retaliation.

Grenadiers being able to dodge on a 1 or 2 is something we missed, but that combined with -2 Cbt on free strikes if they break off will mean that so long as they survive a charge they should have the opportunity to chuck at least one grenade.

They pair up well because generally speaking you won't be doing too much collatoral damage to Dopples if a grenade ends up going off too close and this can prevent them from being overwhelmed.

Arquebusers (from here on called Riflemen) are almost useless except as snipers. It's a good thing they're cheap enough... but when considering what I'd like first in my lists I'd start with 2 x Dopples and 2 x Grenadiers and (considering Baptiste and a Fencer) then only last look at a Rifleman as a sniper.

His biggest benefit is his range. He's more accurate the less he moves, so giving him a good field of fire is a must. Watch out for the Genie! Personally with Aidan in a list for his CMD and decent combat stats I'd be more inclined to include another Dopple.

So all this being said, what does everyone else think?

I think I'm excited that some of my dusty model collection is going to get used as variants for the models I really like!

[Dogmeat]

Have to agree with the statements about Doppels and Grenadiers.  They`re great.

I used Georg to mixed effect at the weekend.  I`ve found a good tactic to use for him is to charge something soft and squishy as your last action in the first turn.  He`ll probably kill it, getting you the dominance.  At the start of your second turn you can then pop his order and attack with everything you`ve got. 

I`m quite fond of the Nun now too.  That CBT 8 one sided attack is massive against some of the models.  Its a shame she`s got a spiritual weapon though, as she`d be the perfect Succubus hunter without it.

[Bork]

aye considering a demonic furied succubus is faith 5. 

[Dogmeat]

aye considering a demonic furied succubus is faith 5. 

It could`ve worked so well as well.

I wish spiritual damage was optional.  Seems to hurt me more than it helps.

[Flipper19]

On that topic how does penatrating strike work?  Ok Slinger Pen 2 does 5 dmage to a dopple AR 4.  How mucha damage does she do?

Is it 5 - 4(AR) =1 plus 2 point pen through for a total of 3?

Or 2 pen through leaving 3 -4(AR) = 0 damage after for a total of 2?

Just a thought.

[Achilles]

You reduce armour before you apply damage.

So that's 3pts of damage.

[Dogmeat]

You reduce armour before you apply damage.

So that's 3pts of damage.

I`d agree, though I have no rules to back it up.  The only thing vaguely connected is that in hand to hand the person whose activation it is chooses the order things are applied in.

[Achilles]

Well armour is applied before damage, and as Penetrating strike applies to armour and not damage it logically follows it has to happen first.

Otherwise it would never work, as nowhere does the rule say it effects the damage you take... only the armour.

[Flipper19]

Heah I'll go with any rule that makes sense, and in no way causes me to have a stroke.  NIce and easy.

So Pen =armour reduction caused before damage.  sweet thanks.

[Achilles]

Logic wins!

[lapiaz]

Dunno  about Vargas  he  is a weak  officer  weak i as he can't really take that muchin a fight  he will die  faster than  Baptiste , which  is a better fighter can do more damage  is changing places order allow him to move out of danger  engage that pesky  model that is running away or claim an objetive. aslo his  experimental pistol  is  a great softener ...  CMD consuming  but that can be deal  easyly if you include Alvaro and a few  other independents ...  so far I have  better result using  Batipste than Vargas .

[Achilles]

I think people will get use out of both... it depends on what the list you are building is trying to do. Baptiste has toys but he pays for them with low CMD and a higher point cost. Vargas is simple but has his one trick POW that you can gang up and DESTROY with to assassinate hard to damage models.

I'd say it's player preference.

[BlasterBonatti]

Vargas is a bit rubbish really. I've used him twice and in one game he failed to do anything of merit, and in the next was cut down by something (can't remember what, some kind of daemon) before doing anything at all.
Not used Baptiste yet but on paper he's great, aside from the aforementioned cmd problem.
Aiden, Eloise, Fencer, Dopples rock. Although I do agree that Spiritual Damage is a bit annoying for Eloise, her damage chart is standard and her "assassinations" tend to fail miserably and get her squished. She's just so damn cool though it's hard not to love her.
No one mentioned the missionary, I love this guy! Get him behind something solid and he can really piss people off! (Getting a decent heal is quite situational but the other two auras are great)

[Achilles]

Baptiste tends to devalue the Missionary a bit as he lowers Faith values within 4".

I like Vargas for what he is. With him though you need to depend a bit more on the troopers he leads and not the tricks he himself can pull.

[BlasterBonatti]

The new Spadassins (swordsmen?) are quite cool, they'll work well with Baptiste which is nice. Rapid Attack, "Do you believe in life after death?" and VV means they'll probably munch most troops before they get a chance to attack. Fantastic! With some Arquebusiers/Grenadiers softening things up they could probably do in some independants and the crappier officers too. Me likey!