Explosions - a bit too powerful perhaps?

[Bob]

Actually Chams is another model that I consider far too good (as proven by "always playing it"). But even he isn't perfect proof against grenades as it only makes it impossible to throw the grenade within four inches of Chams - the explosion can still affect models inside the barrier (except Chams, as four inches is more than three, naturally), right?

There's a bit more to that. To fire a grenade you need a valid target under the template, and fighters protected by Chams' aura are not, neither are friendly fighters. So as long as the Saracen player does not field a non-muslim too close to Chams or a fighter just outside the aura, it's safe.

[Lemminkäinen]

There's a bit more to that. To fire a grenade you need a valid target under the template, and fighters protected by Chams' aura are not, neither are frinedly fighters. So as long as the Saracen player does not field a non-muslim too close to Chams or a fighter just outside the aura, it's safe.

Ah yeah - I didn't play against Saracens in the tournament, so didn't remember the exact way it worked - just that I managed to use the grenadiers both times I played against Chams. But seriously, if one faction has two effective counters, that still doesn't mean that the Grenadiers are balanced.

[Corto]

I do get your point, Lemmi, and agree, about the grenadiers being very powerful (I still think it's not too much), but as you say so is Chams. And I would add the hashishin, and Layla, and Asaliah, and the mourner, ... I tend to think that it's just some profiles that are a bit underpowered instead. There will always be stronger guys and better combos, but I'm definitely in favor of boosting the unit in each faction that was the least present in winning groups in official tournaments every quarter or 6 months. A very tiny boost, but something to make people want them more in their companies.

I was giving a counter for Saracen because I play them, but others can also counter them pretty efficiently, with a boosted succubus, a hellish maw, ...

[Armand de Maupertuis]

A company with Layla as officer is the best company you can field in Helldorado. If you know how to play Layla and if you compose a good company to go with her , she is incredibly powerfull ! I haved post a topic on that in the french part of this forum.... http://arch01.forum.helldorado.fr/index.php?topic=2193.0

The Grenadiers are the best weapon of the westerners. They are very powerfull but they need dominance if you want to play them well. Don't forget , also that is they can dodge , sometimes they can't because there's no place to go for them... Sometime , the Westerners players found the false good idea to surround their grenadiers. Is their adversary manage to assault or charge the grenadier , they can't dodge and are eliminated in combat.

One of my favorite opponent always take care of the maximum range (4' walking + 4' firing + 3' square for explosion) of my grenadiers when he play. It's not rare that I could only blast 1 or 2 models. The following turn , he run in my troups to prevent too easy grenades firing. it's not always succefull , but sometimes it works very well. If you want to play grenadiers you must have troups that cover them (Dopplesöldners are the best for that job).

- The Golem is one of my favorite models. He offer a good solution against grenadiers because grenade dont affect it !
- The Daemons have Asaliah who can possess an grenadier and can cure 8 PV on all her troups. They also have models with a lot of Pv... They also have a lot of tricks to lure the grenadiers (I dont know all the models names in english version but I put here a link for the models I thought : http://helldorado.fr/factions/les-demons/damne-de-l-orgueil/index.php / http://helldorado.fr/factions/les-demons/damne-de-la-paresse3/index.php . They also have the Succubus who can charge 14' to contact grenadiers.
- The Lost have this beast (http://helldorado.fr/factions/les-egares/gueule-des-abysses/index.php) who can charge 15'. They also have Bran Carnoth who can play his war cry to put down all opponent in 8' range...
- The mercs also have a lot of interesting models who can beat the grenadiers. All you'll have to do , is to wait the release... Sha Ren Zhe , Charon , 30 deniers (I dont know his english name) could protect all factions against grenadiers... Exept the Sarracens who have no need of that protection. An Hashishin could kill 2 grenadiers in 2 turn. It's very easy. I used to play two for being sure...

The best way to prevent grenadiers fury , is by a good managing of the "terraformation" (how do you call it in english ?). In Zaebas 2 Chronicles , you could always put Dust Devils on table. Theses clouds of dust prevent line of sight. It protect against grenade if you hide your models behind them. Be carefull : nothing prevent your opponent to fire a grenade on a place where his grenadiers model has a line of sight.
In Zeabas 3 chronicles , you can put Peace pit on the table. They gave fire immunity to models (so grenade immunity)...

There's a lot of solutions...