Infernal Ambassador´s Perfidious Insinuation and Possesed Fighters

[shalashaska]

A) When an Ambassador "absorbs"  Vae Victis/Vae Soli, can the opposing player give the same order again to the same fighter with the same "intention"?

E.g.: Player A wants to improve the CBT of Bran Carnoth. He pays 2 CMD points. Player B uses his Ambassador to cancel the order paying also 2 CMD points. Can Player A spend 1 or 2 CMD again to give Bran the same order to gain +x CBT in the current combat, paying the cost again (the ambassador could cancel it again with enough CMD points to do so) or we consider that orders that ambassadors absorb are cancelled and we cannot give more orders unitl the combat situation we want to "modify" has finished?

B) Does a controlled fighter (asaliah´s spell, for example) give a support bonus in combat to fighters of the company currently controling him?  I guess he doesn´t, but i´m not sure about it.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Jalikoud]

A) No. Consider that your order has simply been nullified by the Ambassador. You cannot play more than one Via Soli during your turn and you cannot add more than two combat dices to one mini thanks to Vae Victis,so the nasty horny one utterly trick you  . I'm not so sure however .

B) It's a bit complex : you are indeed the player who controls the mini, but it is neither a member of your company, neither a member of his original owner's from the rule point of view. So, it gives no support to anyone, from what i understood.

[Bob]

I don't agree with you on the second one. An ally is defined as a miniature you control at any point of the game, and it is clearly written that each ally gives support. I think the rule you quote only states that if the fighter dies while controlled, it does not count towards the computation of next turn's domination, and maybe for victory points in specific scenarii. I'm not sure of that, though.

[Jalikoud]

Oh well, i alluded to one of the paragraph in the french Rule Book at the end of this status description, it says ( P.67) :

"A controled fighter is not considered to be a member of the company of his new controler, but,  as long as he is Controled, he is no longer viewed as a member of his former fighting company. However, if he dies when he's still under control, its is the player he began the game with who suffers the lost of Leadership points, provided the character has at least one."

A controled mini seems to be "in between" : a player controls it, but it is not a member of any team. The text precises upper that " the controled mini is viewed as an adversary if the player who took control of it was an opponent of its original controler", but it don't say that the controled mini becomes an ally.

It's quite odd...we should wait BioHazard's clarification  .

[shalashaska]

You cannot play more than one Via Soli during your turn

Are you sure about this? I thought the only limit to vae soli was that you cannot activate more than 2 fighters consecutively, but you can use it several times during each game turn as you can pay the order.

Regarding the possesed support bonus question, i  believe that, as the controlled warrior is not part of any team, doesn´t provide support bonus to anyone. It allows the temporal controller to attack him with his warriors too. I´m not sure anyway xD

Thanks for the answers!

[Jalikoud]

Are you sure about this?

In fact no, and after several readings, i think you can, perhaps, play as many Viae Soli as you want, provided you activate no more than two minis in your turn.

I always cede to my opponent when he cancels my Vae Soli with his Ambassador ( and i don't forget to curse the sucker under my breath : maybe it's a bit habbit, but Leadership points are precious, so i prefer not to go at fiercely, as he could cancel more Vae Soli... I remember an ancient battle report on the blog : the westerner player has one of his Vae Soli canceled by the Ambassador and he don't spend one more to retry. As it was played by the game creator, it's probably because you cannot, but i have frankly no idea about this very rule point.

[shalashaska]

Are you sure about this?

In fact no, and after several readings, i think you can, perhaps, play as many Viae Soli as you want, provided you activate no more than two minis in your turn.

I always cede to my opponent when he cancels my Via Soli with his Ambassador ( and i don't forget to curse the sucker under my breath : maybe it's a bit habbit, but Leadership points are precious, so i prefer not to go at fiercely, as he could cancel more Viae Soli... I remember an ancient battle report on the blog : the westerner player has one of his Via Soli canceled by the Ambassador and he don't spend one more to retry. As it was played by the game creator, it's robably because you cannot, but i have frankly no idea about this very rule point.

We came across this question the other day while playing, and we decided it was not possible to retry the order. Anyway, the starter box demons double the starter box égarés in cmd points, so even if you could retry the orders when absorbed, the demon player would easily cancel them again without even running out of points 

i´m getting used to hunt him down as quickly as possible if i want to make use of my cmd points, but he pretty nullifies the potential of the frondeuse in the first and second turn, because she makes very good use of vae victis to get at least one hit far far away in the opponent´s deployment zone with her explosion attack and you don´t need the cmd points for other fighters in those turns.

If in the battle report is used in that way, i guess then it is correct 

PD: I also curse in aramaic when the @#$%& ambassador cancels that vital vae soli you need from time to time xDD

[Geof]

Please excuse my awful english.

The meaning behind Vae Soli is that you can only use it once per turn. So if your Vae Soli is countered by the ambassador you can't spend another point to try once again.

This kind of thing is not the idea beyond these two powers.

[shalashaska]

"Il n´est possible de joeur ainsi que deux combattants de suite, même si la compagnie est composée de plusieurs combattants disposant de cet ordre"

I understand:

"It is not possible to activate more than two consecutive fighters due to this order, even if the company have more than one fighter with this order"

So, no more than 2 consecutive activations, but you could activate 2 fighters (the second one thanks to vae soli), let your opponent activate one, then you can activate one of yours, and then use vae soli again to activate another one, and you are not breaking the limitation of 2 consecutive max.

I have probably mixed up something in the translation, but i can´t find the 1 per turn limit   


What did you mean with "This kind of thing is not the idea beyond these two powers"? I can´t understand what you are triying to say 

Thanks for your help! 

[Graou]

So, no more than 2 consecutive activations, but you could activate 2 fighters (the second one thanks to vae soli), let your opponent activate one, then you can activate one of yours, and then use vae soli again to activate another one, and you are not breaking the limitation of 2 consecutive max.

That's right.

I have probably mixed up something in the translation, but i can´t find the 1 per turn limit   

There's no such thing.

Graou, ultra limité en anglais...

[Bob]

I think Geof didn't mean once per turn, but once per activation.

[shalashaska]

All cristal clear then. Thanks to all!

[Geof]

Once per activation, exactly... sorry about this strange once per turn